Talk:Whistle register

definition

"Children can also phonate in the whistle register as can some men, though McKinney states this to be quite rare" Should a person's name be included, and abbreviated, then they only appear in a reference and not anywhere proceeding this statement in the article? Sgrizzle (talk) 15:31, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

notes/frequencies

the notes and their respective frequencies are frequently incorrect and inconsistent

examples of C6 are given as both 1047hz and 2093hz

also a rare singer is mentioned who can hit G10. while i'm not disputing this, the frequency given for this note is over 25khz, far beyond the reach of human hearing (around 18khz for most human adults) as well as the overwhelming majority of sound recording and measuring apparatus (20-22khz).

i'm going to figure out what the correct frequencies are and edit accordingly... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.207.233 (talk) 21:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the inaccuracies. Part of the problem may be that different people tune pitches to different hertzes. Americans tune their notes higher than Europeans do (a fact that a lot of people don't know). Or it is posible that bad information has crept into the article or vandalism occured at some point and was not caught until now. I will investigate the matter.Nrswanson (talk) 21:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

There was some vandalism in regaurds to the high C frequencies and I edited those. I checked the other frequencies with Scientific pitch notation and they are correct. Also, the Guiness book does put Georgia Brown at G10 so that must be correct.Nrswanson (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry but I don't care where you read it or who quoted it. Homo sapiens cannot register much above 15 KHz. Period. If you want people to keep laughing at Wikipedia then you keep it up. This article is grossly shambolic.

You're right only as far as the majority of older humans goes. However, I'm an audio engineer with grandchildren yet I've tested my hearing out to 17kHz. Sensations have been registered by test subjects made to listen to tones above 20k. Whatever source you have that says 15k maximum is woefully out of sync with science. Binksternet (talk) 21:57, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Two problems with your argument: First, saying that a human cannot produce a tone above X because a human couldn't hear it is like saying that humans don't radiate infrared light because we can't see it. Secondly, many humans, myself included, can hear well above 20 kHz. It's actually not as cool as one might think: I hear the buzz from a typical CRT TV like an unending siren wail. Rebbing (talk) 14:24, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Just a comment about Rebbing's TV siren wail. The high pitched noise from a TV is in the order of 15 KHz Flyback_transformer which is high pitched but nowhere near 25 Khz. Mtpaley (talk) 22:49, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I looked at the talk pages to see if anyone has commented on the 25087Hz claim and the discussion seems to have gone stale. Personally I think it is highly unlikely that anyone can sing at >25KHz and that anyone could hear it if it could be done. The reference points to the guinness book of records but the wikipedia article about Georgia Brown seems to imply that the claim is now regarded as invalid. I think the Georgia Brown sentence needs to be removed. Comments anyone? Mtpaley (talk) 23:31, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

There is just something wrong with this search field, Whistle register don't start at a certain note, that differs for everyone I'm a guy and I have a really low voice and I can use that 'whistle register' and it still quite low. I can hold it for a long time it's not my falsetto or whatever but I'm sure it's that what mariah uses to sound that high, this article is crap. I know it's original research but it's just wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.67.222.138 (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Some time ago when I did a bit or a rewrite on this article I included the line "Though the whistle register is most commonly used to produce pitches above E6, it can be used to produce lower pitches." The whistle register is a register, just like chest voice or head voice - in other words, it's a way of producing tones that sounds sufficiently different as to merit its own name. It has nothing to do with a particular pitch, though it's most commonly and most famously used by sopranos for very high pitches. Clearly I need to add that line back. -George (talk) 01:40, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

• Its a bit more complicated than that George but I definitely see where you are coming from. Pitch actually does play a factor in registers. There are three constituent elements with each register 1. a certain vibratory pattern of the vocal folds, 2. a certain series of pitches, and 3. a certain type of sound. In this case number two is important to remember and clarify. While its absolutely true that registers may overlap, they still are limited to a certain pitch range, which varies to some extent from person to person. In the case of the whistle register's pitch area, it overlaps somewhat with the pitch areas of the falsetto and modal registers but is clearly the highest vocal register. Also, I would avoid using the terms head register and chest register as those terms are not used in the sciences (remember whistle register is a term used in phonetics, speech pathology, and auditory sciences, not just singing) but only in vocal pedagogy (and there with a great deal of inconsistancy and controverssy).Nrswanson (talk) 02:33, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Georgia Brown

Her record has been discussed a bit above, but to avoid confusion with other conversations, I decided to start a new subsection. The article currently states "The female singer, Georgia Brown, was listed in the 2005 Guinness World Records for highest note (G10) ever reached,[8] but this claim was removed by the time the 2007 edition came out due to a lack of any verifiable recording of such a feat.[9]" The latter statement uses Guinness World records 2007, page 366, as a reference. I'd appreciate it if someone who has that edition to hand could check on this: it's not usual for Guinness to publish retractions of previous records, but it is usual for some records which have not changed since the previous year to be omitted to make room for new records. I am therefore suspicious that the editor's good faith attribution of the reason for the record's ommission may be their own interpretation. Could someone please verify what, if anything, the 2007 edition actually says about Georgia Brown? Contains Mild Peril (talk) 22:08, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Lisa Fischer

Lisa Fischer is one of the few prominent vocalists in both R&B and Rock and Roll music today-- (I think Mariah Carey is one of the only others that come to mind...) an attempt was made to place a clip from the Rolling Stones' Gimme Shelter from their 1995 album, Stripped to demonstrate her ability, but the clip came from a You Tube recording and wasn't clear. It would be a kindness if anyone has a clearer original version of that DVD performance to place a clip of her part in the song here. Having a couple clips from different genres would be essential in conveying how the whistle register sounds. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 12:49, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree that audio clips would be nice. However, along with any audio clip must come a published verifiable source which identifies the audio file as an example of whistle register. The last audio clip in my opinion was not a good example of whistle register... It sounded possibly like an employment of head voice with a mix of female falsetto. It didn't have enough of the characteristic "whistle" or flute like sound. Perhaps something like a Georgia Brown (Brazilian singer) clip (she is the world's highest singer) would be more appropriate. And a clip of something like The Bell song from the opera Lakme or the Der Hölle Rache aria from The Magic Flute would also be good.Plumadesabiduría (talk) 20:01, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Or take a piece of emotions of mariah carey, the whistles are very clear on this one and very loud you can identifie them immediately —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.60.224 (talk) 17:06, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Need help clarifying notation.

I got to this sentence and my comprehension went way down: "The whistle register is the highest phonational register, that in most singers begins D6 and usually extends to about D above (D7 or 2349.3 Hz)." I'll look up phonational because I see a wikilink nearby but could somebody explain in the article what D6 is? I've studied organ, piano and voice and I never came across these terms before. I'm guessing it's the sixth D on the piano keyboard. If only I had a keyboard! A picture would be worth a thousand words! DBlomgren (talk) 02:21, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

'Middle C' is generally (not always) referred to as C4. 86.178.190.225 (talk) 21:08, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

See Scientific Pitch Notation.4meter4 (talk) 16:22, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Men can use it in very rare instances

I've changed the wording that men can use the register in "very rare instances", to "some men" can use it. I do not believe it is "very rare" that men should be able to make whistle register sounds, just that most men don't experiment with this register. I can do it (thought not especially well) and am not a professional singer, and there are numerous examples on YouTube of men doing it, sometimes with impressive range and control; I see no reason to believe they are just "very rare" freaks of nature, they are just men with good whistle registers that they've worked on. Orlando098 (talk) 11:00, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

The cited source material says it is quite rare.4meter4 (talk) 13:45, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Well can we change it to "quite" then, not "very"??? I can do it, my singing teacher can do it and tons of men on YouTube can do it. I don't see how it can be "very rare" Orlando098 (talk) 21:37, 1 October 2012 (UTC) Here is a video on how men can do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqO4hoNNQeU --- I re-edited the intro text and added this link at the bottom of the page. It's relevant to anyone who wants to know more about how to use this register. Also, that book cited is nearly 20 years old, there was no widespread internet, not many people knew what whistle voice was and few men were experimenting with it.

Request for semi-protection?

Given that this article is constantly being inundated with original research over the last several years (particularly when fans are wanting to add their favorite pop singers to the article), I am wondering if we shouldn't request a permanent semi-protection of this article. This is an issue that is not likely to ever end, and often the uncited inaccurate material has not been caught for months at a time. Thoughts?4meter4 (talk) 03:15, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Glottal cycle

Where's the Glottal cycle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.142.50 (talk) 20:03, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Registers, whistle and range in women

"In some sopranos, the modal register vocal production may extend into what is usually thought of as the whistle register.[1] With proper vocal training, it is possible for women within all voice types to develop this part of the voice. However, some women are unable to phonate or comfortably produce sound in this register. Children can also phonate in the whistle register and, rarely, some men" I agree that many notes that a soprano might sing in the whistle, could sing them in a different register as well, but are you sure it's modal, especially if we talk about operatic soprano head voice, if we don't and we talk about high belters, that might be true for a G5, but hardly for a C6, certainly not comfortably, usually. We have to recognized that most of operatic head voice might be full in terms of being projected and resonant, might be considered modal "ad honorem" but it's technically not modal, it lies in the falsetto register, so yes, the C6 might be not whistle, but is full "falsetto" head voice, sometimes more operatic sounding sometimes more belt like or pop. A curious thing is indeed that in classical music, passaggio is often taught differently between men and women, for women it involves a register change, for men it usually doesn't, it consist more of a dynamical lightening and covering of the modal register, an action which is sometimes considered registering from a didactical standpoint, but usually it's not. That's unless we think that for females the falsetto range overlaps 100% of the upper end of their modal range. About men phonating rarely in their whistle register, that's hardly proof that they "can't", many can when they try and excercise it, it might come out harder than it does in woman, but it's in their phisical capabilities. There are tenors as well as bass baritones who can. Thanks for your time --78.15.208.11 (talk) 21:41, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Removal of Morisette Amon for "not being famous"

A few days ago an anonymous user removed Morissette Amon from the list of contemporary singers who use the whistle register by claiming that she's "not famous".

I undid this removal. Morissette Amon is famous. Of course, more famous in Asia (probably the most famous female singer from the Philippines) but also in the West. And she's especially known in vocal circles due to her high vocal skill level (and she's inter alia famous for her whistle register). To show my point a little further. To showcase the "relevance" of the respective singers with respect to WP: The mentioned singers are the following: Mariah Carey, Minnie Riperton, Betty Wright, Christina Aguilera, Morissette Amon, Ariana Grande, Adam Lopez, Dimash Kudaibergen, Wang Xiaolong and Georgia Brown. The WP pageviews of their articles (measured on WP in 60 day spans) are as follows:
1.) Ariana Grande: 1.242.000
2.) Mariah Carey: 577.000
3.) Christina Aguilera: 318.000
4.) Minnie Riperton: 153.000
5.) Dimash Kudaibergen: 97.000
6.) Betty Wright: 67.000
7.) Morissette Amon: 26.000
8.) Adam Lopez: 4.000
9.) Georgia Brown: 2.700
10.) Wang Xialong: doesn't have a Wikipedia page

Yet, Morissete Amon was removed for allegedly being the least famous one. With all due respect: That doesn't seem legitimate :) I hope you understand my decision to undo the removal. Best wishes, Jasmin Ariane (talk) 00:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

To prevent the list from lengthening, we should only include the most relevant artists. They are only mentioned as examples, each of them from different era. The purpose is not to list every female singer who has skill. Best regards. Miaow 01:50, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Definition

It is stated that the whistle register is also called flute or flageolet register, but is that true? There are various videos online by vocal coaches (such as by Justin Stoney from NY Vocal Center) in which it is demonstrated that what they call the flageolet or flute register is actually the register above modal (chest, mix and head voice) and it still involves the vocal chords to produce the sound, meaning that in flute/flageolet register you can still sing and articulate words, though it might be difficult. Whereas the whistle register in their demonstrations is even higher - above the flute register - and does not involve the vocal chords to produce the sound. In whistle you can only vocalise certain high pitches, but no longer sing words... I would therefore think that this means that both registers are, both in essence and in range, not two different words for the same thing, but actually two different registers. And the name flageolet or flute register, would then be a different word for the falsetto register (which is also mentioned in the current wikipedia article on the whistle register). Hence a request: could someone with actual knowledge besides youtube videos maybe include a comment on the naming conventions for registers in this wiki-topic?

Falsetto is not considered the same as the whistle/flageolet/flute register in published literature. The whistle register is the same as the flageolet register, flute register, whistle tone, etc. according to the majority of vocal pedagogy writers, among them, William Vennard and William McKinney (see page 105-106 in The Diagnosis and Correction of Vocal Faults: A Manual for Teachers of Singing and for Choir Directors). For a few other sources all saying they are the same: Page 125 of Singing and Teaching Singing: A Holistic Approach to Classical Voice indicates this as well as Whistle tones section in Musical Theatre for the Female Voice: The Sensation, Sound, and Science, of Singing, The Whistle Voice section beginning on page 92 of Singing: The First Art, Whistle Register section beginning on page 86 in Voice Classification by Phonetography: A Manual for Voice Testing, Education, Therapy and Research, and Registers in Singing section in The Oxford Handbook of Singing.

I've never heard that whistle register can't use words, although most of the literature is on extended vowel sounds in operas with some consonants on the onset and end of a vocal run. It probably would be nearly impossible to produce certain consonants in whistle register. There are lots of unsung consonants (examples: CH, K, P, and T are unsung explosive consonants; and F, H, S, SH, WH AND TH are unsung sibilant consonants), and those would be placable as text onto very high tones making some words possible because they are consonants without pitch. Sung consonants (such as m, n, and many others) have definite pitch and are sung at the same pitch as the vowel sound. It's more difficult to execute certain sung consonants at higher pitches which is why the highest vocal lit is usually on vowel sounds, although a run with a lot of high coloratura on a vowel sound might be part of the word because the beginning and ending pitches may have consonants forming a single word. Or the librettist was smart enough to place the whistle tones on a word that ends in a vowel sound. For example the doll song from The Tales of Hoffman has the singer performing the whistle tone on the word Olympia (the name of the character who sings the aria) with the vocal runs all happening on the last vowel sound of the word. Even unsung consonants can present challenges because they can interrupt air flow which impacts breath support. So... Singing on vowels is easier. But a master coloratura soprano probably could sing words in whistle register if they were carefully crafted by a composer and librettist knowledgable about what a particular singer could successfully say while singing in that register. 4meter4 (talk) 23:03, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Isn’t flagolet and whistle register different?

Still a student, but I’ve heard they’re not the same thing 2601:183:4103:6340:B915:D13F:9EF3:DB34 (talk) 01:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)